Thursday, 19 January 2012

Best and Worst army in Warhammer Fantasy.... really?

Sometimes, i really enjoy reading Battlereporter blog, and some survey gives good input on the world of Warhammer Fantasy. When i came across these results, i was puzzled.

Obviously, seeing the Ogres so far down kind of bother me, but i'd like to get a real look at all the choice there's in there.
Here's a rundown of the most powerful army in 8th eds.

% of all voters / army
46% High Elves
45% Skaven
40% Warriors of Chaos
32% Dark Elves
29% Chaos Daemons
28% The Empire
20% Lizardmen
20% Dwarfs
19% Vampire Counts
16% Orcs and Goblins
10% Ogre Kingdoms
9% Tomb Kings
7% Bretonnia
6% Wood Elves
4% Beastmen

#1 High Elves.

Ok, High Elves have some very good choice, like 4+ Wardsave infantry, and Great Eagle. But they do not really have much to deal with big monster beside magic. Teclis might play a role in that ranking, but when you take him out, its not much of a #1 to me. Maybe Low-mid Tier 2, at best.

#2 Skavens.

They definately deserve to be in tier 1. Very cheap tarpit, one of the best monster in the game (I'd actually rank it above the Hydra, TK's and Ogre's easily), and some magic to turn the game at any times in a game (dreaded 13th is scary, but alot more spells are also very scary).

#3 Warrior of Chaos.

Tzeentch Shield wearer, warshrine and the hellcannon definately make it a Tier 1 army. But its not all, Khorne Marauders with flails (or great weapon), Mage casting with a 6+ bonus, and overpowered (yes i said it) special caracters makes it a very tough army. It can be built in many interesting and well performing theme, but sadly the Chosen Death Star seems to be the only one people play. Another definite Tier 1.

#4 Dark Elves.

They are not necessary what they used to be, but still alot of solid choice in there. First, the Dagger and the Inverse Wardsave, two of the most powerful item left in the game (and that will most likely dissapear with their new army book, whenever that comes out). Second, Hydra, and pretty much their whole special choice, are very good. Witches are simply amazing to take down anything, their Cold One Knight are also very strong, if we forget about their stupidity and Black Guard are a very good elite troop that can eat through just about anything. I'd consider them Middle-Late Tier 1.

#5 Daemon.

Quite Frankly, its hard not to put them in Tier 1. Just like Warrior of Chaos, their got GREAT special character, most of their troop choice are also very strong. I didn't get the chance to play them much in 8th ed, so i can't really comment further.

#6 Empire.

With the 8th Ed, warmachine really got a major boost, and most Empire army seems to be about bringing the most warmachine possible every game. With that in mind, i'd place them Low Tier 1 - high Tier 2, since you can take down the rest of the army (well, except that Speculum carrier) relatively with ease.

#7 Lizardmen.

There's really just one build that really scares just about everyone, and its the amazingly-tweaked-caster Slann. It's hard not to place that single model in the most broken thing possible. +1 dice to cast, and redirect miscast? Oh, and loremaster? great.... The rest have some strenght (like T4 and relatively good armor all around), but nothing to put them in Tier 1. Mid Tier 2 at best..

#8 Dwarfs

Just like Empire, warmachine leads their army to victory, and just like empire, they seems to bring as many annoying warmachine as possible. With their low movement all around, i'd place them just behind Empire.

#9 Vampire Counts

Quite frankly, no clue where to place them with their new book. I think they'll be middle Tier 2, just like every other new army book.

#10 Orcs and Goblins.

Nothing really makes them powerful. Sure, the Savage Orcs Deathstar is nice, so is the "OMG, LOOK AT THOSE FANATICS!!!", but its all. A fun army to play with or against, but nothing as competitive as Tier 1, or even top Tier 2...

#11 Ogre Kingdoms.

11, really? We got boosted pretty much all around with the new book, and 8th edition is really nice to monstrous infantry. I personally think we are mid-top Tier 2, ahead of Lizardmen (when comparing with everything, except broken Slann). But the fact we're still very vulnerable to Initiative test and warmachines, I do not see how we could be ahead of Empire or Dwarfs. It's again all about what kind of army the opponent brings. If the empire goes infantry heavy without warmachine, it could be a walk in the park... if he brings 2 cannon, mortar and such, not so much.

#12 Tomb Kings

Probably one of the weakest book recently released. Sure there's a few interesting build that can tear through just about any army (like Death Mask Chariot Deathstar), but most strong build have great weakness. Since Tier 2 is getting packed with all the new army, they'd be bottom tier 2 - Top tier 3.

#13 Bretonnia

Sadly, the breton are probably one of the army who suffered the most in 8th ed. With just about every army being steadfast against their army, and the fact they are pretty weak once charge is over, they don't really have the punch required to bring themself ahead of anything except the weakest army.

#14 Wood Elves

The unloved wood elves, weakest of the elves. They still got a few tricks up their sleeves (like a folded tower with 10 story and 100 archers in it), but most tricks are either boring, or very boring. They are at the bottom, and #14 seems about right.

#15 Beastmen

beside the minotaur bus, nobody seems to be able to come up with a solid list for the beastmen. I never actually played with the army, so i can't say its 100% true, especially since i think there's still a few interesting build possible to make that army viable. But for this one i'm going with internet, and placing them #14, just ahead of the poor Wood elves.

My ranking ;

Warrior of Chaos
Daemon of Chaos
Dark Elves

Ogres Kingdoms.
Vampire Count
Orcs And Goblins

High Elves
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves


  1. Beastmen arn't bottom! although I am biased (as you can tell in my blog!) :p

  2. New Ogre Book puts them Tier 1. Hellheart, deathstar of ironguts and 9 mournfangs means you cant kill anything and everything deals too many high str hits. high elves are tier 2 at best, they haven't been able to win a tournament since Step up became a rule. Maybe a double horde of white lions with teclis in magic immune bunker... But special characters are often banned. Lizardmen are tier 1, salamanders are broken, dealing with hordes and cavalry alike, they dominate the magic phase and a have 11 poioint coret models with 2 attacks s4,t4, 4upsave.

  3. Vampires are better than that. Nobody understands how to play them. You gotta give your hordes bonuses like the corpse cart ability that gives things Always strike first or the staff of damnation that that gives them an extra attack.

  4. Hi- just saw this post.
    I'm still working out what armies fit where. O&G really fell this edition. I'm actually not a fan of Tiering armies though. It's too vague and there's no actual context of play level or play style.

    I think most people that can run a Circus (basically, a Star from 7th, but on cavalry), with either some form of Flier, or Skirmish support can wipe people out. Combine most rules from this and it's like the designers intentionally made it annoying to translate.

    I think Skaven should stay up there- and depending on the DoC rules update in WD, they MAY stay up there (Honestly, I've only fought the ChosenStar so I have no clue what else there IS to run). High elves are ONLY good if you run a pseudo Teclis though. If you can figure out a way to live against them for ONE round, you've managed to win.

    And I'll be honest: 2 of the tougher players in Central California are Brets with a Kislev theme and Woodies. If you can find an army that lets you think and use many different ways to win? THAT is your army. Screw the tiers.

  5. I Still think daemons should be placed at #1, a 5 up ward save army wide makes them a pretty nasty threat, + they have fateweaver, Flamers and now the newly added Soulgrinder.

  6. Hi Enkiel,

    Sigmar here (from Battle Reporter). I think your order more accurately reflects the standings than the poll I carried out on my blog (that finished in Jan 2012).

    Personally, I would move High Elves up in your poll and move Vampires down. Other than that, I think you're spot on.

    I suspect not everyone voting had played against Ogre Kingdoms at the time, they were relatively new and people were probably voting against the older army book.

    I love you blog BTW, keep it up,

    BTW, the final "weighted" ranking on my blog was thus...

    Warriors of Chaos
    High Elves
    Dark Elves
    Chaos Daemons
    The Empire
    Orcs and Goblins
    Vampire Counts
    Ogre Kingdoms
    Tomb Kings
    Wood Elves

    Strongest and Weakest 8th Edition WFB Army

  7. Do chaos dwarves have a rank? I am trying to choose an army, at the moment I am deciding between empire and chaos dwarves. I like the heroes/lore of empire, but I think chaos dwarves seem interesting.

    1. I can hardly comment on Chaos Dwarves, since pretty much nobody plays them (due to their monetary cost mostly). If anything, i'd place them around Dwarves.